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Subject:

As *I* see it...

From: Justathot Find all posts by Justathot Send private message to Justathot
Date: Wed, 30-Oct-2024 4:57:18 PM PDT
Where: SoapZone Community Message Board
In topic: ~*~*~WEEK OF OCTOBER 28 POTPOURRI~*~*~ posted by Wahoo
In reply to: But 'they' as a non-gender-specific pronoun is very old. posted by K_StillNotOver2016
But 'they' as a non-gender-specific pronoun is very old. And just to let you know that I sympathize (more later) I just fail to understand the English language argument.

As an English major, my initial reaction to someone naming themself with a plural pronoun (they/them) was NO. Grammar says NO to that. But I’m also aware that language is constantly changing, so I can live with that change.

If we don't know someone's gender, don't we routinely employ 'they?'

I do not. I'd probably add the extra syllables and say something like "That person over there," possibly with a descriptor like "in the blue jacket."

"Why do you need me to see the pharmacist?" "They will fill your prescription. "

When I use the word "they" in a case like this, I know that the act of filling my prescription will go through many hands (more than one), so "they" is appropriate. "They" is a collective, more than singular, pronoun for peoples, especially people on a team, in an organization, getting stuff done. Otherwise, I could say that I won't accept a prescription unless she fills it or he does the final QC. Just give me my meds, and nobody gets hurt.

"What does my teacher want?" "They expect you to read the syllabus before class."

I would have repeated the specific title. "My teacher expects me, and all the other students, to read the syllabus before class." I spend a lot of time working on gender neutral names/titles. It might be from the luxury of having been in the military or working with the military. A captain is a captain, gender neutral. I explained that to a ROK lieutenant after I dragged him across a room by his lapel because two guys who worked for him referred to me as "Miss" while I was standing there in uniform. I didn't mind being called "Sir," which is what I was often called while in Korea; but, I often went by my job title or whatever gave me authority.

In work environments, I interact with you in a transactional manner. What service are you providing? There's usually a neutral name for that, like the "My teacher" case above. Outside of work/transactional relationship, there is
often a gender neutral term for the relationship. It's total strangers, especially when people are trying to sort people into individual sets, that becomes a problem.

That's why I think 'they' makes a lot of sense.

"They" is a plural pronoun. I didn't like it when someone would look me, all by myself, dead in the eye and call me "y'all" when I was in Texas. I'd look over my shoulder to see if there was anyone else there. Does English need a gender neutral pronoun for people? The current one is for non-sentient beings. That's the problem.

My problem is that, as a polite Southern girl, I routinely address strangers as ma’am and sir. As in “Thank you, ma’am,” or “Excuse me, sir.” Only I am now aware that, despite their appearance, the people I’m addressing may not identify with “ma’am” or “sir.” I’m trying to do better, but it’s HARD after decades of being old-fashioned polite.

"Sir" can be an acronym for "Senior in Responsibility," but it will need to be socialized and accepted in place of "ma'am." Like I said, I didn't mind being called "Sir." In some futuristic sci-fi movies, they call the person in charge "Sir," regardless of their gender.

This is where I struggle the most as well. There's no good equivalent that I'm aware of to "sir" or "madam" or "miss" or "ms." So if I'm trying to get someone's attention, I struggle...especially when they present as one gender over another.

Sounds like a "Hey, you!" moment.

There are very few shorthands when it comes to a non-binary gender presentation. Unless I'm made aware, I'm more likely to screw up. And screw up I do because I tend to overthink it at times. I tell myself to be careful not to screw up and then I do.

Descriptors to put the person in a context? The person who sold me this crappy pair of shoes, my friend from my psychology class, a parishioner at my church, etc. to establish both relationship and context. Extra words, but no gender is involved.

Now that I'm no longer in the military, I often say, when people ask I know someone, especially when we were in the same organization, "We were stationed together." That provides context, but it doesn't denote a superior/subordinate relationship, or imply gender. It covers lots of bases while allowing for new contexts to be developed.


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